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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Jayhawker wrote: | Jathan, we've chatted a few times, and it always comes down to the same thing. You whine like a baby every time someone sucks out on you. You question every call that goes against you.
The discussion about the sandwich play came from another situation like that. You called me and the guy who called my all-in retards, and then claimed that I didn't understand what you really meant. The fact is, you were pissed becasue you had a better hand, and I and the other player forced you to fold, and I got payed off.
Yeah, you called a us retards, and claimed we didn't know what you meant. |
Wow, I really don't know where you get all this hostility from. I said one word, "Retards", out of frustration, because the guy went all in with garbage on the first hand of the tourney and you raised me out of the hand when I was ahead. We had a lengthy conversation (not argument) afterwards when I actually told you I didn't mean it and I was just steaming when I said it and you said you understood and could relate. We even agreed that the sandwich play you did was risky because it would only get a good player to fold and not a maniac like the guy who went all in. It worked for you then because your hand held up and you said that was a risk you were willing to take. I said you probably would feel different about doing such a risky play on the first hand of a real tourney for a couple hundred dollar buyin and you said you wouldn't hesitate. Which is fine. (Fill in the blanks if I forget something)
I left to play a new tourney that started and thought all was good between us... Wow, I guess I was wrong. I honestly don't remember any other conversation between us ever.
Incidently, that comment (and worse) would have been said in any real life situation as well, not only by myself, if anyone was in my shoes...
| Jayhawker wrote: |
All you can say is that PA is not real poker, and try to come off like we are all fools, while you are the all-knowing poker pro. And you wonder why people on PA think you are an ass. |
It is my honest opinion that people make certain plays on PA because it's not real money. I know there is no value in PAX so I equate it to the value of my time, which I do value. So when I get burned by these bad plays, I sometimes say something, as I would if I played in a real game and the same thing happened. You want to hold that against me? Fine, I can take it as well as I can give it. To me, it's all part of the game.
| Jayhawker wrote: |
Honestly, it makes sense that you posted such a disgraceful story here. It's almost humorous that you think posting this is some sort of a service to people here, in order to expose the rotting underbelly of poker. Everyone knows there are cheaters out there, and the way you descibed is an old story, which is why Rob doubted you in the first place. |
It's sad that you still think I posted this for any reason other than PK and I and the Euros and Americans in the Ryder Cup did exactly the same thing and PK and I had exactly the same experience but his conclusions on team play were wrong in my opinion.
| Jayhawker wrote: |
The key here is, you have acted like an ass to many people at PA, only to excuse it by claiming we are just clueless dolts. You whine when you lose to a bad call. |
Like I mention to you in our chat and above, I treat my play on PA as a real life game and react to the outcome in the exact same way. To me that's poker and how it is in real cash games and down in AC. And I'm not gonna pretend that bad plays don't happen in real game. They do. They just happen more on PA and if you don't believe that, there is nothing anyone can say or do at this point to change your mind but don't make it sound like I do or say anything that isn't ordinary in real games...
| Jayhawker wrote: |
And now you come here and talk about how you and your buddies are scumbag cheaters, while you, King Scumbag, left your "friends" without a ride in Atlantic City. Oh, but that story was a benefit to the good folks at PA, as we would appreciate hearing about how poker "really" is. |
Again, it's sad that you still think I posted this for any reason other than PK and I had a similar experience and that his conclusions on team play were wrong in my opinion. You've reacted (or overreacted) in a way that is beyond reasoning. When you get sucked out on by a bad play and say something, it's the spur of the moment thing and those things are rarely taken seriously in real poker. When you take the time to respond to post on forum and respond the way you have, you have to put some thought into it and probably really mean what you are typing which is unfortunate. So much hostlity to something that isn't remotely connected to you...
| Jayhawker wrote: |
It all boils down to the the fact that you are about as much of a low life as there is. No social skills, no conscience, no remorse. No reason to be treated with any amount of respect, really. Maybe pitied, but you would just take advantage of that, because you have the hallmarks of a sociopath.
I see no reason for your presence to be tolerated by anyone here. |
LOL, SPEECHLESS.... |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob-L wrote: | | I love how all cheats try to justify themselves by saying others do it or think about it. Of course some have thought about it, but the difference is most have the proper moral fiber to not act on it. |
I was the first to point out the difference about thinking about it and acting about it on my above post. The conditions were conducive to trying it out since:
a. We would go to AC anyway.
b. We looked at it as a challenge.
c. We were all very comfortable at a poker table in AC where as a good percentage of the others obviously weren't
You want to say I don't have a "proper moral fiber"? Your choice, your words. But you know little or nothing about me don't you? We tried something a few months and you are willing to make such a blanket statement about me huh?
| Rob-L wrote: |
The other move is to infer that the person coming down on them are trying to come off as "superior" or "better" to make them feel wrong about calling you a cheat. It's flawed logic, you know it's wrong at least be man enough to admit it. |
Maybe you didn't my post above the difference between thinking about something and acting on it. What do you think I was refering to? Baking Cookies? I have owned up to CHEATING at SnG's more than anyone else here has owned up to anything wrong they've done.
| Rob-L wrote: |
The one thing I know about cheating is that you don't brag about it or talk about it with people outside your cheating team.
So, you're either a pathetic liar who has watched Rounders one too many times or you're an idiotic and awful cheater. |
I think you are mistaking me for Men the Master who makes a living cheating in every major tournament out there. We tried a cheating strategy that works for a few months as a challenge and to make up some extra poker money. Not that we needed it either since we all have good careers. Is it cheating? Yes. Am I gonna worry about talking about it somehow ruining my "scumbag" reputation among other "scumbags"? Are you people really serious????
Last edited by Jathan on Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Cardgrrl wrote: | | Whichever the case, in future, I will not knowingly play at any PAO table where I find Jathan sitting. |
Are you serious??? SPEECHLESS |
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Jayhawker
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 494
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have no doubt that Poker Academy would not like to have any of the kind of posts you have made on their site, for the same reason most video gaming sites will not allow piracy talk. The last thing PA needs is to be associated with anything that approves of cheating, or gives any tips on how to cheat.
Seriously, Jathan, your post is so out of line. Not only are you showing a huge lack of respect to yourself (becasue you can't be worried by morals and all), but it is a HUGE lack of respect to PA. It really is staggering just how clueless you are on this issue. But then, you have yet to show anyone respect on PA, so that should not be a surprise.
I'm in the same boat as Cardgrrl. There is no way I would want to associate with you at a poker table. You are a proud cheater. What positive effect could there be from sitting at a table with you?
_________________
Jayhawker
Gabe: Phil Hellmuth has got a weird look on his face... like a shy ostrich who's looking to mate.
AJ: I'll take your word for that one.
Gabe: You don't watch National Geographic?
AJ: Yeah, but the ostrich episodes are not my favorite. |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Jayhawker wrote: | | I have no doubt that Poker Academy would not like to have any of the kind of posts you have made on their site, for the same reason most video gaming sites will not allow piracy talk. The last thing PA needs is to be associated with anything that approves of cheating, or gives any tips on how to cheat. |
That may or may not be true but there have been so many posts in the past here about various methods of cheating and collusion (not involving myself) on PA and nothing has been said by those who must be obeyed, I didn't think it would matter. Also, it's not like I gave anything away that wasn't already known. The same plays were used in the Ryder Cup event on PA and were displayed on various documentaries and on the ESPN series TILT. Men the Master employs these startegies in every major poker tournament, even as we speak. I didn't give out ANY tips on how to cheat that weren't already beaten to death here and elsewhere. My post was to relate my experience wit that of PK's and to disagree with his analysis.
If I have broken any other rule that I wasn't aware of then it was not intentional and will voluntarily delete the post.
But that's not for you to decide...
| Jayhawker wrote: |
Seriously, Jathan, your post is so out of line. Not only are you showing a huge lack of respect to yourself (becasue you can't be worried by morals and all), but it is a HUGE lack of respect to PA. |
Lack of respect to myself??? This coming from a guy who took the time to type out replies to my posts, several times calling me names for no reason at all?? Who made you judge and jury to the moral standards that people should be judged by??? Get real...
And the HUGE lack of respect to PA?? What I discussed is NO different than what happend at the Ryder Cup event. One team used this strategy on unsuspecting individuals on one day and the other team tried to counter the strategy the next day but it blew up in their face. I played for the challenge and real cash, they played for the challenge and pride. And the same strategies were being discussed OPENLY in several threads here before I replied to PK's post. Just because I did it at a casino to strangers as opposed to doing it online against you all I'm somehow held to a different standard???
Again, who made you judge and jury??
| Jayhawker wrote: |
It really is staggering just how clueless you are on this issue. But then, you have yet to show anyone respect on PA, so that should not be a surprise. |
That's funny how all of a sudden you have determined what I've done and not done on PA. I had one chat with you ever that started off with a spur of the moment comment from me, took it back instantly, followed by the most intelligent debate about the use of a move I've ever had on PA with anyone, followed by a goodbye... Any now you have determined what I have done and didn't do on PA?? That's a lot of nerve backed up by nothing more than a single word from me that was totally spur of the moment.
| Jayhawker wrote: |
I'm in the same boat as Cardgrrl. There is no way I would want to associate with you at a poker table. You are a proud cheater. |
I'd like you to show me where I said I was a "proud" cheater?? I clearly made the distinction that it was wrong to act on the thought. Was it cheating? Yes. Am I "proud" of it. I would never use that word to describe it. It was a challenge, a test to see if we could do it and it worked. Did we try to move up in stakes and try it on a larger level?? No. Was it a big deal to give up? No. Proud?? Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.... I can say without a doubt that I've owned up to more things that I say or do in 10 or so posts than any of you have. When I'm wrong I'm the first to admit it as I did that day with you and above. Don't try to make this into something it isn't...
| Jayhawker wrote: |
What positive effect could there be from sitting at a table with you? |
Well that's your choice and I'm sorry you feel that way. I think our discussion of your play that day covered every base of the sandwich play there was to cover, including the area where I think your analysis was wrong. Namely, you have to use it against good players and not maniacs. You said you didn't mind and the risks were worth taking, especially early in the tournament. While I disagree, I do see your point if I look at it from a different view, that of an ultra agressive player.
Pity....
Last edited by Jathan on Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rob-L
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 2659
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry Jathan, I stopped after about the third sentence of your last few posts. I don't have time to read all of your BS and I just don't care about you that much. You, and all cheats can kiss both sides of my ass.
In the words of PA's Sammy Farha (or was it 1?)...
Arguing on the internet is like running a race in the Special Olympics.
Even if you win you're still retarded. |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob-L wrote: | Sorry Jathan, I stopped after about the third sentence of your last few posts. I don't have time to read all of your BS and I just don't care about you that much. You, and all cheats can kiss both sides of my ass.
In the words of PA's Sammy Farha (or was it 1?)...
Arguing on the internet is like running a race in the Special Olympics.
Even if you win you're still retarded. |
Yet you still reply with such an intelligent, thought out post to justify your comments... |
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TheDeuce
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 1647
Location: Cali.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Cheating is cheating. In this day and age of poker, where weak players just give their money away, it's a sad sight for anyone who needs to cheat at the game.
First off, if Jathan wanted to cheat at a SNG with with his buddies, that's his perogative. He obviously doesn't feel bad about what they were doing, nor (in my opinion) respects the game at all if he chose to cheat, knowing it was the wrong thing to do. The reason I say he knows it was wrong, is because everyone who does something they know they aren't supposed to, feels they have to justify doing it or suggest everyone else is thinking the same thing.
Secondly, saying a pro does it everyday on a forum like this is slander. Can anyone prove it? Even if he did do it every day, does it keep other people from winning legitimately? And thinking about cheating, and actually doing it are two very different things. It's like seeing an elder unknowingly drop a $100 bill. You know you could get away with picking it up and keeping it, but it ain't the right thing to do.
Trying to help win an online team event for ficticious currency is one thing, I think think that got lost in revealing what you like to do in the "real world". I actually have played with you for some time here at PA, and I actually think you are a very good player, Jathan_nj. I just think it's unfortunate you would be one who would stoop so low to cheat at the game.
(Only a humble opinion)
TD
_________________
"Play the opening like a book, the middle game like a magician, and the endgame like a machine."
- Viennese chess player Rudolph Spielmann |
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Nut-ella
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Southern Emisphere
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:46 am Post subject: |
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This reminds me of when i was i young girl ( yes a loooooong time ago! ) i used to go with my father,down to the local corner store, to buy newspaper.
One day we found a lady's purse on the kerb,there was no money in it, only a few papers, a pensioner card,and photos.
The address on the card showed us she lived only two streets away from our home, so on our way back, dad decides to return the purse to her.
When we got to the front door, before ringing the bell, my father took $ 10 from his wallet and put it the lady's purse.
This gourgeous old lady couldn't say enough" THANK YOU dear "not so much for the purse, because she had no money in it, but for the photos.
My dad taught me how to play Poker, ( not Holde'm ), he used to love the game! we used to play every sunday afternoon, he taught me everything there was to know about the game.....including...NEVER EVER cheat at cards.
No matter who you are in the community, wealthy, succesful, respected, if you cheat at cards you become the lowest of the lowest scum on the face of the earth .
This advise, coming from a man of his integrety, for me it's GOSPEL, and i will NEVER tolerate CARD CHEATS
_________________
Oh shut up! just shut up!! You had me at Hello!!! |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| TheDeuce wrote: | | Cheating is cheating. In this day and age of poker, where weak players just give their money away, it's a sad sight for anyone who needs to cheat at the game. |
I agree and as you know I can hold my own and dont NEED to cheat. We CHOSE to try it out and it the context of the original post in this thread, it did actually work well, which is WHY I posted.
| TheDeuce wrote: |
First off, if Jathan wanted to cheat at a SNG with with his buddies, that's his perogative. He obviously doesn't feel bad about what they were doing, nor (in my opinion) respects the game at all if he chose to cheat, knowing it was the wrong thing to do. The reason I say he knows it was wrong, is because everyone who does something they know they aren't supposed to, feels they have to justify doing it or suggest everyone else is thinking the same thing. |
Oh I wasn't trying to justify it. I was just a little astonished about the level of criticism and language that people who dont know me from a hole in the wall levied against me.
| TheDeuce wrote: |
Secondly, saying a pro does it everyday on a forum like this is slander. Can anyone prove it? Even if he did do it every day, does it keep other people from winning legitimately? |
If they could prove it they would have him banned but it IS common knowledge that Men the Master stakes an army of asian players that are supposed to accumulate chips and dump them to him. It doesn't prevent others from winning but it's still cheating. I didn't point this out to justify what we did. I pointed it out to refute a claim that I somehow let out some revelations on how to cheat.
| TheDeuce wrote: |
And thinking about cheating, and actually doing it are two very different things. It's like seeing an elder unknowingly drop a $100 bill. You know you could get away with picking it up and keeping it, but it ain't the right thing to do. |
Agree.
| TheDeuce wrote: |
Trying to help win an online team event for ficticious currency is one thing, I think think that got lost in revealing what you like to do in the "real world". I actually have played with you for some time here at PA, and I actually think you are a very good player, Jathan_nj. I just think it's unfortunate you would be one who would stoop so low to cheat at the game. |
I dont DO it anymore, I DID it in the past. I DO respect you opinion TD but I hope that what has been said doesn't stop you from joining in on a game with me in the future. |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Nut-ella wrote: | No matter who you are in the community, wealthy, succesful, respected, if you cheat at cards you become the lowest of the lowest scum on the face of the earth .
This advise, coming from a man of his integrety, for me it's GOSPEL, and i will NEVER tolerate CARD CHEATS |
I have no stats on you so I must assume that we've never even played together before and I know we've never met or chatted before. By your statement, are you seriously implying that the European and American Ryder cup teams and myself, who are all guilty of the same thing - colluding, are the lowest of the lowest scum on the face of the earth?? |
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Nut-ella
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Southern Emisphere
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: |
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I re-read your original post, i thought maybe i misunderstood what you and your friends were doing.
Maybe you were playing as a team, against other teams,for points or glory.
But no, you were playing as a team, colluding to cheat other players out of their money, therefore CHEAT = lowest of the lowest.......
Oh, and by the way, you don't have any stats on me because i'm still in Freeroll, you see i suck at this game, but that doesn't make me less than a human being, only cheating at cards does that.
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Oh shut up! just shut up!! You had me at Hello!!! |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Nut-ella wrote: | I re-read your original post, i thought maybe i misunderstood what you and your friends were doing.
Maybe you were playing as a team, against other teams,for points or glory.
But no, you were playing as a team, colluding to cheat other players out of their money, therefore CHEAT = lowest of the lowest....... |
I like how you tried to conveniently find a way to separate what I was doing from what the Ryder Cuppers were doing. They were colluding while playing against other with points/pride on the line. We were colluding while playing against other with money on the line. In each case, everyone at their respective tables knew what they were playing for. There is NO difference in what the Ryder Cuppers were doing and what I was doing. We all were colluding in EXACTLY the same way. Neither of us was STEALING, we were all COLLUDING. If the Ryder Cuppers decided to pony up $1 each to add a prize for the winners, you think that would change the way things transpired??? No way. They fought and would fight just as hard for pride or for cash.
And you make it sound as if I was actually stealing money from an elderly lady. We merely gained and edge with our strategy over the other players. Everyone there was there to gamble with real cash. Sometimes our edge would not yield results but most times it would. Again, this is NO different than what happened at the Ryder Cup. Stealing money is one thing, colluding in poker is what it is no matter what the stakes are for... Nice try though.
| Nut-ella wrote: |
Oh, and by the way, you don't have any stats on me because i'm still in Freeroll, you see i suck at this game, but that doesn't make me less than a human being, only cheating at cards does that. |
Another one with a defence mechanism of putting words in my mouth... Where did I ever criticize you poker skills or humanity?? I was merely pointing out to you that we've never crossed paths before and to come out and call me names out of the blue was very surprising, especially since I was doing EXACTLY what the Ryder Cuppers were doing... Yet, you still found the urge to take the time to type 2 posts, calling a total stranger some pretty bad stuff. Do you not have anything better to do???
I can only imagine how much excitement I would bring to your life if I told you I robbed a bank and got away with it.... |
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alan
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 972
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
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It is very different from the Ryder cup. In that game everyone knew it was a team event.
If you told everyone at your table in AC that you were playing as a team then I think everything is perfectly kosher. |
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Akileos
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1253
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Three Treys you are one very funny guy.
You should write a column on the web.
I am serious. Maybe the next Dave Barry, or better.
Jathan, this place is the equivalent of a chess club. Not the local smoky, beery, sketchy poker hall. That is why I refer to how some friends of mine told me that they sold "beat crack" to some junkies.And how we had a good laugh about it.
See, I have done nothing wrong. Oh, and when my friends told me, I stopped all contact with them.
Clean, pure, 99 percent pure soap.
_________________
Look mommy, I won a hand! I love poker now!!! |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| alan wrote: | It is very different from the Ryder cup. In that game everyone knew it was a team event.
If you told everyone at your table in AC that you were playing as a team then I think everything is perfectly kosher. |
Not true. The American team had no idea what they were up to in the beginning and got blind sided. Even afterwards, when they caught on, they were never sure if the Euros were colluding but they decided openly to collude themselves. It wasn't until the event was over that the American admitted they changed strategy and colluded. From what I've read, even until now, the Euros still haven't openy acknowledged colluding. They simply say they played as a "team". They are the analogous to Men the Master where as everyone knows what he and his asian army are doing in tourneys, even though they never admit it. The Americans are analogous to myself where we both have acknowledged they we colluded but for them and myself on that one night, it blew up in our faces.
Same thing, no different. According to Nut-ella, we must all be the lowest of the lowest scum on the face of the earth. I wonder were we all rank in terms of people that actually steal from others? Are they the lowest of the lowest of the lowest scum on the face of the earth or is lowest of the lowest scum on the face of the earth pretty much rock bottom??
Last edited by Jathan on Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:00 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Akileos wrote: | Three Treys you are one very funny guy.
You should write a column on the web.
I am serious. Maybe the next Dave Barry, or better.
Jathan, this place is the equivalent of a chess club. Not the local smoky, beery, sketchy poker hall. That is why I refer to how some friends of mine told me that they sold "beat crack" to some junkies.And how we had a good laugh about it.
See, I have done nothing wrong. Oh, and when my friends told me, I stopped all contact with them.
Clean, pure, 99 percent pure soap. |
Maybe you don't read the posts in here or really play much. There are several posts in here about people cheating in various ways (i.e. using two computers) and there is collusion against sitters every night on PA.... Just last night in a tourney I played in someone else was asking us to collude against a sitter because they sitter won that last 2 hands he was all in with. He openly asked us to all call the next hand that the sitter would be all in with. This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff the Ryder Cuppers and myself would do. The sitter wasn't even a real sitter. He played very well and had a lot of chips but someone come to his door and he even said to us he'd be right back...
Clean, pure, 99 percent pure soap? Maybe your chess club is closer to 80%.... |
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P K
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: Kentucky
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I have been following this thread and thinking, "I have no dog in this fight", but now I do.
Let me set the record straight.
The American Ryder cup team NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, had any meeting whatsoever. At no time did we ever discuss collusion, plan bets, actions, chip dumps or anything of the nature.
The only thing we did as a group, and intentionally, was to change our names to Number 1, 2 3 and 4.
Individually, and without discussing it amongst ourselves, some of us dumped chips to our teammates and checked hands we would have normally bet. When I wrote the article, it was after the fact, which is why I said we did the same thing the Euro's did. In other words, we learned form them and some of us, without premeditation, did the same things they had done in previous games.
If that is collusion, I admit I did it, but somehow I don't think it is collusion as collusion requires two or more people to plan the action.
So, in closing, I do take offense to any notion that the American team planed to cheat. IT DID NOT HAPPEN!
P K |
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Jathan
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| P K wrote: | Well, I have been following this thread and thinking, "I have no dog in this fight", but now I do.
Let me set the record straight.
The American Ryder cup team NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, had any meeting whatsoever. At no time did we ever discuss collusion, plan bets, actions, chip dumps or anthing of the nature.
The only thing we did, was to change our names to Number 1, 2 3 and 4.
Individually, and without discussing it amongst ourselves, some of us dumped chips to our teammates and checked hands we would have normally bet. When I wrote the article, it was after the fact, which is why I said we did the same thing the Euro's did. In other words, we learned form them and some of us, without premeditation, did the same things they had done in previous games.
If that is collusion, I admit I did it, but somehow I don't think it is collusion as collusion requires two or more people to plan the action.
So, in closing, I do take offense to any notion that the American team planed to cheat. IT DID NOT HAPPEN!
P K |
From the Merriam-Webster online disctionary:
Collusion: secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose.
What we did was the agreement AND cooperation parts of the definition. PK, I'll take your word that there was no agreement on the American side and that your team just adjusted their play. What you describe is an unspoken cooperation which is part of the definition.
As for the Euros, does anyone think they just magically showed up on day 1 and coincidentally decided to all start calling every raise by an American player? Agreement AND cooperation.
I can understand not wanting to be lummped with me in the lowest of the lowest of the lowest scum on the face of the earth. Maybe dumping chips to your teammates and checking hands you would have normally bet only puts you in the lowest scum on the face of the earth, according to Nut-ella. Who knows???
Last edited by Jathan on Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mamoose
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 166
Location: Meriden, CT
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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This arguement reminds me of the debate about steriods. I wonder if people think Barry Bonds isn't a cheater either.
People that cheat are scum, particularly when it affects other people and their money. Jathan basically robbed people. Sure it was petty larceny... That would make me sleep better too.
at least we're not advocating mugging people in the parking garage...
If you want to cheat at poker, stop playing. It would be much safer to burgal people's cars for radios and such.
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